Do you see any merit in Secretary of State Kerry’s initial frantic efforts to achieve a cease-fire?
How do you negotiate a cease-fire with a terrorist organization? I understand how two governments can negotiate a ceasefire, but terrorists by definition are not playing by the same rules as you are.
I think the honest answer is that Obama and Kerry understand that as a matter of mastering American politics they have to say that of course we support Israel’s right to self-defense, and then comes the “but,” comma, and what in effect is the repudiation of that statement. So I don’t think anyone should have any illusions of what’s going on here. If Kerry and the UN [get] a cease-fire it will simply allow Hamas to regroup.
British Prime Minister David Cameron has said he’s “worried” the “facts on the ground” in Israel were “beginning to make a two-state solution impossible.” Do you agree the two-state solution is dead?
I’ve said for years that the two-state solution is dead and I think the rocket attacks that resulted in the closure of Ben Gurion Airport helped prove that. There’s not going to be a two-state solution as long as there are terrorists still committed to destroying Israel. It’s not a question of where you draw the lines. It’s a question of the nature of the regime in the other state.
My suggestion has been what I call the three-state solution, which is you give Gaza to Egypt, particularly now with the military government back in control, and figure out how to divide up the West Bank and give whatever parts Israel doesn’t keep back to Jordan.
I understand the enormous difficulties with that because there’s no guarantee that Jordan and Egypt can snuff out terrorism in Gaza and the West Bank and because no one wants the Palestinians. This reflects the terrible tragedy of the Palestinian people who are used as the tip of the spear by radicals of the Arab world. The people of Gaza are being held hostage by Hamas. They are not just being used as human shields; their existence is a human shield.
What policy would you advocate toward the PA/Hamas unity government?
I don’t think there’s any doubt what the policy should be. When Arafat was still alive, I remember President Bush at one point was asked who else America would talk to besides Arafat. Bush said, “Well, maybe we don’t talk to anybody but we’re not talking to that guy.” And that’s the answer.
Abbas is not capable of making hard decisions and of carrying out whatever commitments he makes. So what’s the point of negotiating? And now that they’ve decided they would rather have Hamas as a partner rather than Israel, what other proof do people need?
How concerned are you about the BDS movement and the Palestinian approach to unilateral statehood in the UN?
I went through this in 1989 with the first Bush administration. At the end of 1988 the PLO changed its name card at the UN from PLO to Palestine to act more like a state. And they began a membership campaign in the UN system beginning with the World Health Organization. I was actually still assistant attorney general when I went to Geneva to try and stop this. And I persuaded Jim Baker to issue a statement recommending to the president to cut off all U.S.-assessed and voluntary contributions to any UN agency that changed the status of the PLO. That stopped them dead in their tracks. And then Congress put in legislation. It was a hard line to take and very unpopular with our European allies but it worked. It stopped all talk of using the UN to create facts on the ground.
