Sending a polite pastor to try to deal with a proficient propagandist is not necessarily a good idea. Tucker Carlson, who has smeared Israel nonstop and become obsessed with the Jewish State, has had no pro-Israel guests on his podcast, other than Texas Senator Ted Cruz, whom he vilified and was extremely hostile toward. Carlson is likely too scared to have Ben Shapiro, Douglas Murray, or Hillel Fuld on as a guest, so I understand that U.S. ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee may have figured that it would be him or nobody.
Carlson recently said he hated Christian Zionists, that they had a brain-virus, and that their support for Israel was “heresy.” Huckabee, a pastor who ran for president in 2016, is one of the biggest Christian Zionists in the world.
An Insincere Apology
Carlson began with what appeared to be an insincere apology. He said he has anger problems and had “lost control of himself” when he previously said that he hates Christian Zionists, and added that even his wife had barked at him. (Maybe the Christian Zionists he really hates are the ones who fired him from Fox News.) His later claim that he wasn’t sure he knew what Christian Zionists were only added to his lack of credibility.
The Pollard Problem
In his effort to portray Huckabee as someone with allegiance to Israel over America, Carlson questioned why Huckabee had met with Jonathan Pollard, an American convicted of spying for Israel who served 30 years in jail. Huckabee did well to remain calm, and he explained that it was a 30-minute visit and he didn’t consider it a big deal, though he clearly stated that what Pollard did was wrong. Still, Carlson fans got their red meat as an appetizer.
Trying to Place Herzog on Epstein Island
One must be prepared when sitting with someone who lies. When there is something you hear that sounds strange, it’s not enough to say you haven’t heard it or read it. You must say “Show me the source or it didn’t happen.” Carlson grotesquely said that Herzog had visited Jeffrey Epstein’s island, claiming this was mentioned in the released e-mails. This is false. Huckabee noted that he had not read it in the press (because it isn’t true), but many who watched the interview will believe Carlson’s lie.
Calling Out Carlson for IDF Slander
In Huckabee’s strongest moment of the interview, he chastised Carlson for platforming Tony Aguilar, a U.S. Army veteran working for the Gaza Humanitarian Fund, who said a boy named Amir was shot and killed by the IDF. Huckabee told Carlson: “I know it didn’t happen because we found that little boy a week later. I was heavily involved. Tony Aguilar is a liar.” Carlson, not surprisingly, did not say he would investigate, and strangely said of Aguilar, “I don’t know if he’s wrong, I’ve been wrong before.”
An Absurd Demand that Israelis Be DNA-Tested
Carlson falsely said that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s parents did not speak Hebrew (Huckabee didn’t correct him) and claimed the Jews of Israel may not be the same as those of the Bible.
Huckabee, in a strong moment where he made Carlson look stupid, said: “If they speak the same language, if they worship the same God, pray to the same G-d, if they follow the same Bible…if they always pray ‘Next year in Jerusalem…’ does that not give you a little clue as to who they are?”
Carlson said it would be a good thing for Israelis to get DNA-tested. Online, there are conspiracy theorists who claim such tests are illegal in Israel. They are totally legal.
“Why don’t we do genetic testing on everyone in the land?” Carlson asked.
“Would we do that all over the world?” Huckabee asked, trying to show Carlson’s double standard.
The Qatar Connection
There is no precedent in journalism history for someone to say virtually nothing about a country, then suddenly love it, visit it, and say they are buying a home there. Carlson, aware of rumors that he is taking money from Qatar, addressed that some call him Tucker Qatarlson, but told Huckabee he didn’t take a penny from the country.
After Huckabee claimed that more Christians live in Israel than Qatar, Carlson said that way more live in Qatar. Huckabee pointed out that they don’t have passports. While Carlson is technically correct that about twice as many Christians live in Qatar, this was an opportunity where Huckabee could have made it clear that in Israel, Christians have full citizenship rights, whereas in Qatar, a non-Muslim cannot become a full citizen. This was an opportunity missed, as was his failure to comment on the billions Qatar spends on American campuses, which Carlson never mentions while haranguing AIPAC at every moment.
I would have also liked Huckabee to ask why it was that Carlson looked like he was about to cry when he reported that missiles were fired by Iran into Qatar, but claimed Ben Shapiro was too emotional after October 7, despite Americans being kidnapped and killed.
Carlson the Zionist?
The word “Zionist” has been hijacked to mean something evil. A good thing to ask someone is whether they supported a two-state solution under the Oslo Accords. If the person says “yes,” you can then let them know that they are a Zionist because the term simply means the idea that Jews have the right to live in Israel as a Jewish State.
Huckabee did it the wrong way and first defined Zionist as a person who believes Jews have a right to live in Israel in safety. Then, when he asked Carlson if he believed Israel had a right to live in Israel in safety, Carlson knew he could not say he was a Zionist, and simply said he wishes Israel no harm. Huckabee also could have explained why anti-Zionism is most often a form of antisemitism.
Huckabee’s Gaffe about Israel’s Right to Exist
Huckabee would have been better off saying, as Dinesh D’Souza did, that countries get legitimacy in one of three ways: being indigenous, having a major international body declare its rights, or fighting and winning in war. Jews are indigenous to the land, the U.N. voted for Israel to be a country in 1947, and Israel won numerous wars. Instead, Carlson asked if every country has the right to exist, and Huckabee asked if America had the right to exist. Again, Huckabee said the right things, but not in a forceful or concise way.
On the G-d-given right from the Torah, Carlson noted that the land promised to Abraham includes far more than Israel in the current day, and would include other Arab countries, as it runs from the Nile to the Euphrates. Huckabee foolishly said, “It would be fine if they took it all.” The reason this is significant is that conspiracy theorists who believe there is a plan for “Greater Israel” in which Israel will conquer other Arab countries will now point to this comment to prove that it is a real plan.
The Trump Factor and ‘From the River to the Sea’
Huckabee’s strategy in the interview was to repeatedly ask Carlson if he had spoken about any of these things with President Trump or if he thought Trump was weak. Carlson said he doesn’t work for Trump and often deflected or said he was not against Trump. Carlson was not convincing. Carlson charged that Huckabee could not know what’s in people’s minds. Huckabee should have pointed out that the Arabic version of “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” ends with “Falastin will be Arab,” and while there may be a minority who think it’s about peace and equality, for most it’s really about calling for the genocide of Israel.
What about Iran?
Huckabee called out Carlson for wrongly predicting that American soldiers would die if the U.S. bombed Iran’s nuclear facilities. Carlson cited that only 20% of Americans say there should be an attack against Iran and tried to make it appear that any attack is for the benefit of Israel and not America. I’m not sure why Huckabee didn’t bring up that Carlson had said Iran should be nuked if they made an effort to assassinate Trump, which they reportedly have looked into.
The Final Analysis
Perhaps after seeing Cruz get emotional in his interview with Carlson, Huckabee figured the thing to do was remain calm, which, to his credit, he did. However, if any pro-Israel guest is to be interviewed by Carlson, they can’t come with kid gloves. Huckabee should have asked why Carlson never has pro-Israel guests and why he is suddenly buddies with Cenk Uygur, who mentioned Israel more than 110 times when he sat down with Carlson.
Carlson has great skill in magnifying and minimizing what he wants to, and is a charismatic con-artist who is unlikely to be discredited by a kind man who cares about decorum. We also don’t know what instructions Huckabee had going in, but he was too docile and allowed Carlson to outmaneuver him at times. Unless someone calls out Carlson and demonstrates his lack of receipts in a powerful way, there is no net positive to sitting down with him.