NYC-DSA Gave Public Radio Host Answer He Didn't Want to Hear

On Friday I attended a graveside funeral of a Jew who was born in the Former Soviet Union. Aside from the Chabad rabbi who was officiating, the deceased’s grandson spoke. A line I remember is how when he would play soccer with his grandfather, his grandfather would insist that he not use his left foot because in the FSU, everyone had to conform to being a righty.

Earlier, while driving to the funeral, I was listening to the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC, the NPR affiliate in the N.Y./N.J. area. His guests during the segment were the two co-chairs of the NYC branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), Grace Mausser and Gustavo Gordillo, coming off their congressional victories in the June Democratic primary.

At one point, Lehrer asked his guests to distinguish their movement from communism, especially in light of the fact that President Trump keeps conflating them.

Lehrer: “Can you say in your own words – Because the caller says you all should be pushing back and make it really clear. Can you say in your own words what the difference between communism and democratic socialism is to you and how you think people around the country should understand the difference?”

Gustavo Gordillo: “I think that communism is something that goes further than democratic socialism. I think that what we are advocating for is pretty much common sense to a lot of ordinary people in the country.”

Lehrer clearly did not like this answer because he immediately returned to it and asked Gordillo to clarify again. 

Brian Lehrer: “Go one more step and just say what you are not that communism is for when Trump or anybody else calls you communists. What are you not that communists are?”

Why did Lehrer ask for clarification?

Perhaps he wanted to give DSA cover. Or more likely: he truly believes they are not what they seem. He wants to believe that the DSA is just a slightly stronger form of the liberalism he's used to and practices. It’s French press liberalism. He can't accept that these smiling, seemingly wonderful people are the extremists their political opponents make them out to be.

I’ve been listening to Brian Lehrer for over two decades. For the longest time, the show was like a warm blanket and Lehrer always presented as one of the best and most reasonable hosts, willing to push back on almost any guest, and whose own politics (while rarely stated) appeared to belong to the normal center-left, a space quickly disappearing in the U.S.

But since Oct. 7, 2023, when he had over 40 episodes dedicated to the war between Israel and Gaza/Hamas in the first several months, listening to the show has become an increasingly dispiriting experience. Even before Oct. 7, Lehrer was already entertaining guests who called for the eradication of Israel as a Jewish state, a position that should have been as anathema as denying the history of slavery in America.

These days the show regularly traffics in the genocide-hoax. Not by Lehrer himself, who hastens to add that proponents of Israel disagree with that labeling, but by very many of his guests. By allowing such extremist views, the Brian Lehrer show has turned from a forum for reasonable disagreement into a venue where fringe ideas receive mainstream treatment.

What was Gordillo’s answer when Lehrer asked him to clarify?

Gustavo Gordillo: “I think that communists believe in ending all class distinctions. I think that that's theoretically a valuable goal, actually. I don't think that that's where we are in this country right now. We are fighting for transformative reforms through a democratic process, by engaging in elections, by engaging in the legislatures where we have our elected by building worker power. We're not fighting for revolution.”

Theoretically a valuable goal, actually.

Not the answer Lehrer was looking for.

At the funeral, I spaced out a bit after the “conformity” line by the grandson. The communism in the Soviet Union was unfailing and unflinching. Citizens had to get on board or else. The lesson of the Soviet Union was not merely that communists sought economic transformation; it was that movements convinced they possess historical truth often become hostile to pluralism itself. That is the question liberals should be asking about the modern DSA.